On today’s episode, we share how we have been able to maintain our strength and resolve along our path of sobriety.
In this week’s episode, Russ and Mika are sharing some of the practical habits that they have been using in an effort to maintain their sobriety.
These topics range from how to avoid replacing addictions with unhealthy habits, how to get over your fear of being sober, and a whole lot more.
You’ll also hear the start of a brand new segment where they talk about their some of their favorite things that they are currently reading, listening to, eating, and enjoying.
In this episode, you will learn:
• How to avoid replacing your addictions with other unhealthy habits.
• Why you should stop caring what other people think.
• How to get over your fear of being sober.
• The benefits of going public for some accountability.
Mentioned in this episode:
• Russ Perry on Instagram
• Mika Perry on Instagram
• The Sober Entrepreneur by Russ Perry
• The Russ Perry Show
• Wake Up Warrior
• Parenting with Love and Logic by Foster Cline and Jim Fay
• Big Little Lies by Liane Moriarty
• Secrets of Wealthy Women by The Wall Street Journal
• The Skinnygirl Margarita by Bethenny Frankel
• Siete Chips
• Gemfleur Essential Oils
• Meditations by Marcus Aurelius
• Invasion of Privacy by Cardi B
• 22 Days Nutrition
Russ Perry: Hey, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Good To Be Home, happy you are here. My name is Russ Perry.
Mika Perry: I am Mika Perry.
Russ Perry: In today’s episode we are talking about how to stay sober. If you missed it, we had a previous episode around the more exploratory, darker, deeper, reasons of sobriety, kind of a case for sobriety, but we wanted to share with everyone really practical and simple tips because whether you want to be sober, whether you’re newly sober, and whether it is with drinking or food or social media, there’s some really universal things that we came up with that we use every single day to help us stay the course.
Mika Perry: Yep. Sobriety to us is a choice and it’s a lifestyle for us and really, really has dramatically improved our lives.
Russ Perry: Before we get there, we’re excited to announce a new segment of our show …
Mika Perry: … called what we are reading, what we’re listening to, eating, and loving.
Russ Perry: Did we say it right?
Mika Perry: I think so.
Russ Perry: Okay. We’ll get better, but also what we’re going to be doing, too, is if you go to our site, GoodToBeHomePodcast.com, you can download or get a link to the active running best of what we love list, which we’ll have updated every episode, putting links and everything on here. You can definitely check that out. Mika, this is your idea for this segment. I’m really excited, so I’ll give you the pleasure of sharing to me, Mika, what are you loving this week?
Mika Perry: Thank you, Russ. Alright, so currently I’m reading a non-fiction book called Parenting with Love and Logic and then I’ve been trying to get through a fictional book called Big Little Lies, which I purchased at an airport on the way to our last trip. Taking me a long time, not because I don’t like the book, but I am, one, a slow reader because I fall asleep when I read and just not making time to read. These are the two that I am hopefully going to finish up soon.
Russ Perry: Hopefully, will be off your list the next time you give the update?
Mika Perry: Hopefully, you guys. It might be on there again. We’ll see. This is like an accountability. I am currently listening to a podcast called The Wall Street Journal’s Secrets to Wealthy Women and it’s pretty short and concise. There isn’t a lot of banter. It’s like this one chick, I don’t know who it is, and she’s very direct in interviewing successful women in business. I like it because it’s not a goal to be wealthy, it’s to get insight and tips on how people have succeeded because success doesn’t happen to you, it’s a choice. What are the steps and challenges and obstacles they faced?
Yesterday, I listened to Bethenny Frankel, who, you know, the Skinny Margarita and then, also Real Housewives. They also had the CEO of Birch Box on there and then the Shark Tank lady, but really cool, so check it out if you need a new podcast to listen to Wall Street Journal.
Eating. I am obsessed right now with Siete Chips. If you’ve been on Instagram, I feel like you’ve seen it if you’re a girl like me. Everyone’s eating them. They’re grain-free tortilla chips and so delicious.
Russ Perry: The trick though, I think the way they get you is there are only like 18 chips per bag, so you have to buy 15 bags to actually consume enough.
Mika Perry: That’s true. I mean, the bag looks full and then you actually start eating. You’re like, oh, this is only like a sixth full, so I definitely have eaten a whole bag by myself. I highly suggest the lime flavor. It’s really tangy and delicious and it’s made with like cassava root. They also make a tortilla, so if you’re grain-free, there’s a tortilla option there.
Alright, and then just generally we thought, you know what? For our fourth topic of reading, listening, eating, the fourth one would be what am I currently loving? Just anything in general. I love Russ Perry. Russ is pointing at himself.
Russ Perry: Did I make the list this week?
Mika Perry: Yes. You make the list every week, Russ. I don’t need to mention it here, but yes, I love you and I also love my essential oils called Gemfleur. I’m super excited because I’ve personally been working with the founder, Jenny, of this essential oil, aromatherapy line. It’s their newest line that is combining flower essences and gem elixirs with gemstones in, with essential oils into these amazing blends for aromatherapy and they just launched the website for that particular line. They’ve only been in spas up until now, so now you guys can buy it. You can go online and there’s a code, Mika.
Russ Perry: Now, this sounds like a bunch of hippy, dippy baloney, but I want to give a case study on gem oils and last night, no joke, it was a long day and I was like, “Hey, Mika, can I have some oil elixirs or whatever?”
Mika Perry: Russ was like, “Hey, can you spray me with that essential oil stuff?” I was like, “No, let me do this right.” I got, it’s their sleep oil, and it is a really small vile, but it was super potent and amazing. I said, I put some on your chest and then I put some in the palm of your hand, and you rubbed it and inhaled it.
Russ Perry: No joke, I slept like a rock last night, so, I mean, say what you will about gemstone oils, it works. Great, sweetheart. Thank you for that list and again, we’ll be trying to publish these on an ongoing basis. For me, reading, listening, eating, loving. I am reading thanks to kind of a reminder from Ryan [Holiday], an author, cool, very cool guy, reminding me about the book Meditations by Marcus Aurelius. A book really on stoicism and the philosophy, practices, and mindsets there. It’s kind of popular. Been more trending last year than this year was really, a lot of people were talking about it, but I like it. It’s really practical advice just in terms of making sure you’re having the right mindset for everything. Listening, got to love my girlfriend, Cardi B releasing her album.
Mika Perry: You are so obsessed with Cardi B. I hear about Cardi B every single day from Russ Perry.
Russ Perry: Her club banging album, Invasion of Privacy was dropped last week. In addition to her announcement that she’s pregnant with a baby from Offset, from Migos, one of the rappers from Migos, so congratulations to Cardi B. My personal favorite is actually a track I believe with Offset and it’s She Bad. Definitely, don’t listen to that in the morning with your kids in the car.
What I’m eating is just a lot of meals from 22DaysNutrition.com. They’re vegan prepped meals. I love the brand. I got a little behind on eating them, so I have dozens of them in my freezer, but they are awesome. A little hack is having prepped meals delivered to your work. That way, you always have lunch available. You don’t even need to worry about it.
What I’m loving, if you go to my Instagram, Russ Perry, there is a … I’m trying about on a daily basis during the weekdays, post a screenshot of what looks like my agenda. What that actually is is a list, it’s an app called Effortless. It’s a Mac app. It’s like every morning I’m basically making a list of what I’m going to do plus the time associated with how long I want to work on that task. If it’s reading meditations, I put 15 minutes read meditations, one, five. Then, it will be a little timer on my computer, which very stressfully beeps and alarms when the timer runs out and you can either mark it done or add more time. One of the biggest benefits is finding out and being aware of how distracted I can become when I am on the web, but I’m supposed to be writing or I’m supposed to be preparing for something and I’m not, I’m on my phone, so highly recommend that. You can check out my daily schedule on my Instagram and that’s what I am reading, listening, eating, and loving.
Mika Perry: Again, we’ll put this all in our notes if any of these brands or apps have interested you.
Russ Perry: Totally. Alright, well, let’s get to the meat of the conversation today, Mika. Weeks ago, one of our first episodes, we had a conversation around the why’s of sobriety, so if you missed that, go to our site, GoodToBeHomePodcast.com. You can just search sober and you can see what posts we’ve had on the topic, but today we were just going to get into the practicalities of how we stay sober. Now, for those of you who haven’t listened to the episode or you’re just getting caught up on the conversation, I think any addiction that we have, whether it’s big time addiction to a substance or maybe a small-time addiction to a social media app, it’s all about habits that we’ve created that really aren’t serving us.
To break those habits does take some effort and awareness and work, but the name of the game isn’t just saying, “Yeah, I don’t want to drink anymore. That’s bad for me.” It’s actually doing it and in changing your habits, which aren’t easy to do. These are the practical things that we’ve done and we’ll go through each person’s lists, but remember, when you replace a habit, you need to replace it with something else. You can’t just stop doing something and expect the world to be in balance. We’re creatures that enjoy habits and enjoy routines, so if we are involved in habitually drinking a bottle of wine at night and we’re not doing that, if we’re not careful we could replace that with habitually eating a thing of ice cream a night.
There’s ways to break habits, but you also have to make sure that if you’re changing your habits and trying to live sober, you’re not replacing one addiction for another, which I’ve seen and personally experience myself.
Mika Perry: What did you replace?
Russ Perry: Desserts. Desserts, sugar, lots of sugar intake and I’ve, I think only recently, even tried to cut back on it. I think that biochemically there’s a lot of sugar and sugar’s in alcohol and then, you are kind of craving that sweet tooth. However, with … as I’m evolving and as I’m becoming more aware of that, then it was replacing … I mean, I’ll talk about this in my list, but I brush my teeth super early at night to not succumb to eating again because I don’t like brushing my teeth. I do it every day, thankfully, but it’s like, doing it twice, no way. I’d rather not have dessert.
I’m going to go through a couple tips. Some are practical, some are sort of mindset tips as well. One of the first things, when I realized that I had an addiction with alcohol, was that that addiction was me actually avoiding something. I was avoiding conflict, I was avoiding stress, I was trying to avoid it at least. Turns out, it was always there once I was done drinking. One of the first ways to stay sober is realize that your habits of addiction are usually because you’re trying to avoid something. If you tackle that head-on, then you can often or most often, curb the addictive behavior. Let me give an example.
Friend of mine, his wife passed away last year and he has not cleaned out her closet. Pretty heavy example, but he was drinking a ton and the reason he was drinking was because he, every night, he’d be like, “Oh, I’ve got to go clean out her closet, I’ve got to put away her clothes and get rid of them,” and he’s like, “I don’t want to do that. I’m going to go drink.” The avoidance of this challenging emotionally charged thing was perpetuating his drinking habits. I told him, “Dude, you’ve got to get after it. Set a timer, do it for 10 minutes, and then stop. Make it an activity that you tackle, but not for the whole night or not try to do it all at once. Just replace that trigger of drinking with a, okay, 10 minutes of cleaning and purging.” He’s been after it and he’s been doing great. He’s been realizing that wow, when I was drinking, it was because I was avoiding this thing. That’s one.
The other big thing, actually probably could be the biggest thing ever is, stop caring what other people think. So many people drink and are online and do the things that they don’t want to do, which are unhealthy for them because they feel like there’s social pressure to. The reality is, as illustrated in my book, Sober Entrepreneur, is that no one really cares. When I quit drinking, it was mass amounts of props and mass amounts of congratulations. Even the guys that I used to drink with, who I’m still connected to most of them, they were like awesome, it was fine and all of the stories in my mind about not drinking were far greater than the actual decision. To stay sober, don’t care what other people think.
Next one. Run, go run. You’re starting to feel the itch, you’re starting to feel the craving, go for a job. Simple as that. To my same friend who was struggling with his wife, I said, “Go outside and run and run as far as you can without stopping.” Maybe it’s a hundred yards, maybe it’s a mile, maybe it’s 10 miles. I don’t know his physical condition. Then, make a note of where you ran to and run, walk back, you know, try to do your best and then the next time you have one of those cravings, try to beat that distance. You just build and build and build and eventually you kind of become a runner, but what it actually does is it hijacks your biochemistry, dumping the endorphins and the feel-good chemicals into your body that is temporarily done also when you drink, but you do this through physical exercise. If running’s not your thing, you can go lift weights. I just think it’s easier for someone to just get up and go run outside and not have to think about going to a gym or getting ready or whatever it might be.
Next one, pretty simple, if you have friends that like to drink or participate in the substances that you’re trying to break free from, get new friends. No explanation there. Next thing, this is a big one, realize and do the math on how much time is being taken up with your addiction. When you realize truly how much time you’re spending on something that is simply spent in a mindless state or a state where you’re not improving yourself, you’re not improving your relationships, you’re not improving your family, you’re not improving anything, you’re not creating anything, then you will be flabbergasted and that is a huge thing for me. Why I remain sober is I don’t have time to drink anymore. There’s no way I can continue to do that.
Next thing, just biochemically, buy stock in sparkling water if you are getting sober because you’ll drink a lot of it. That is just a tip for anyone who is deciding to quit drinking. Sparkling water has that effervescent feel to it and you can drink a lot of it. You can get lime flavors, kind of like a mocktail.
Mika Perry: When Russ and I go out on date nights, we would use to get wine. Then, I would be the only one drinking wine. Now, we get three bottles of giant Pellegrinos. The guys are like, you want another.
Russ Perry: Cost wise, it’s about the same. Like, they definitely mark up those Pellegrinos. A poor man’s sober night out is soda water and lime you ask for the bar. Kind of give it with like a little nod to the server because it’s like an industry. Oh yeah, okay, I got it. Another thing, especially if you’re dealing with substances and drinking is to be the driver. If you’re going out with friends or in a group or with whoever, just drive and leverage that as a great reason for why you’re not drinking. This was a really good one for me when I first started quitting drinking. It was like, oh, I’m driving, couldn’t say I was pregnant because I’m a dude.
The other thing, next thing is meditation. A lot of … back to my first comments, if you’re avoiding something, there’s definitely something mentally that is up and what meditation is, is practice for your mind, it’s the ability to be present with your thoughts, you can use the app Headspace, which is free and you can download that. It’s a great starter kit for anyone who’s not meditated before. Meditation allows you to go to something other than sedation and other than your addictions when you are faced with those consequences. That’s really good for almost … I look at it as like a personal trainer for your brain that you have there.
Second to last tip here, stay busy. An idle mind, an idle life, will lead you to destruction if you’re not careful and if you are eliminating the addiction, the time, the space that it took, the energy, the money, you don’t have that in your life anymore. You have to replace it with something else. You have to be proactive about that, otherwise, you will find yourself replacing it with something that is destructive. Finally, totally self-promotional, but like a legitimate, legitimate, legitimate tip is go get my book, the Sober Entrepreneur. You can get it at SoberEntrepreneur.com for free, just pay shipping, but why I suggest that is I just talk about a real-life story on getting sober and what I did in excruciating detail for when I made the decision and how I’ve remained sober. That’s like a playbook especially for the guys listening. If you have not gotten it, that’s why I wrote it is to share that side of it.
Mika Perry: Great tips, Russ.
Russ Perry: Yeah. There’s a lot of pressure around my home to be organized, in case you don’t know, with living with Mika, so we decided to put a little more organization around this. I’m really working hard, hon, to be clear and not say dive into, dive into our tips, which apparently, I said seven times in a previous episode.
Mika Perry: Yeah, I counted. Definitely being the driver when you first are sober. If you drive, I think that when you need an excuse, that’s a good one because you’re still not over your fear of what other people think yet. Then, also with the running and working out, go outside to run, that’s going to be harder than drinking. Some of these things are going to be harder because drinking, you stay at home and you drink and it’s a really easy physical task, so going out in running sounds totally sucky, but doing it, just forcing with every ounce of your being to do it, you will feel better after and so accomplished. You’ll feel better than drinking.
Russ Perry: Yeah. It will kick the funk that you’re in that is [how] allowing you to consider going after it.
Mika Perry: Yeah.
Russ Perry: Alright, let’s drop your list here.
Mika Perry: Okay, so for my tips, first one is getting over your fear of being sober. If you’re thinking about becoming sober from an addiction or substance abuse or something in your life, chances are you’ve been thinking about it for a while and you’ve known that there’s something there that needs to be addressed. For me, I was just so fearful of the idea of being sober, of what people thought, could I do it, what does that life look like, so that fear kept me in the same place for a really long time and just in my pattern of habitually consuming alcohol, which turns out was also my addiction as well.
As a couple it’s interesting that we had the same, but yeah, get over your fear and if you are having a hard time, talk to someone about it. I’m not a talker. I kind of tend to close up and by forcing myself … Russ is nodding because he knows this, so I really have to force myself to open up and talk to people about it. It’s been extremely helpful, obviously, to have Russ as my husband who is a senior in sobriety compared to me, so [inaudible] talking to him about. Then, if you can’t talk to someone about it, force yourself to get over it. Identify that you’re fearful and force yourself to look at the other side and the other life sobriety on the other side of the fence, and acknowledge that, that you’re scared.
Okay, next tip. Adding good, positive things to your life.
Russ Perry: Wait, hang on because you skipped one that I did say, too, but I think it’s really important because it’s …
Mika Perry: Okay.
Russ Perry: … it’s truly why people don’t make the decisions.
Mika Perry: I skipped it on this list here because you had already mentioned it, but I guess that’s a good point is that it’s also on my list because no one will actually care if you drink or not. They won’t. People are too self-absorbed to care about you.
Russ Perry: You know who cares is the people that sell alcohol or the drug dealers or the porn makers or whoever.
Mika Perry: The important people in your life will not care. They want to see you happy and, in fact, by you making a stand for something, they may see you in a higher light and it may help something within themselves, too, so you’re being a good friend or a family member to them, too. No one cares. It’s the story you tell yourself, what will they say?
Okay, so the next tip is adding good, positive things to your life. Whether that’s a sport, exercise, things you do with your kids, meditation, travel, a new hobby, taking part in art, food, non-alcoholic drinks, like sparkling water, health, wellness, reading. Like you said, Russ, if you take away a habit, there’s going to be an open space in your mind and your being and your time to replace it with something, so replace it with something good. For me, it’s kind of been all of those things and I don’t have it here on my list here about the time, but I’ve had the thought many, many times at night or whenever, when I’m just like, when did I have time to drink before? The action of drinking, the recovery from drinking, it’s such a time sap and now it’s like, I don’t even think about drinking because I’m so busy with other things and other good things. It’s another active choice you have to make.
Next one is address your depression, anxiety, perfectionism, etcetera, your root cause of drinking. Russ, you said yours was …
Russ Perry: Stress.
Mika Perry: … stress. Mm-hmm (affirmative). For me, definitely stress. It was avoidance like you mentioned.
Russ Perry: Isolation. I felt … I was stressed and I was isolated. I was stressed out and then I wasn’t talking to anybody, I wasn’t confiding in you, so the avoidance of the conflict, or like you said, my fear of that conflict was just like this compounding prison that I was existing in.
Mika Perry: I was a prisoner in my own mind. I don’t talk aloud, but I think about everything. I’m such an internal processor, so for me, drinking allowed me to shut that voice down, to silence that voice. I was avoiding hearing my own thoughts.
Russ Perry: I think this perpetuated. It was kind of this weird situation guys because Mika was still drinking for a while after I had made the decision not to. I never knew that there was really any issues, so I was not necessarily proactive and being like, hey do you want to not drink, because you weren’t talking about anything and it was in your own mind. I look in hindsight almost … I don’t say guilt, but I was an enabler for you. I was a cause of a lot of your own problems with drinking because I was the guy showing up on a Friday afternoon with a bottle of wine or something for the weekend not knowing that it was compounding challenges.
Coming back to the talk about it or isolation, it may not be obvious that there is a challenge either with a significant other or you might not be aware of it, but coming out of that, not being afraid to talk about it is so key. Finally, when you did talk about it and brought it up with me, then it was like the avalanche or the floodgates opened where we could really analyze and be like oh, my gosh, yeah, okay, we’re going to help make these decisions now together and try to move forward in a healthier way.
Mika Perry: Depression, anxiety, perfectionism, I mentioned these specifically because those are things that I’ve struggled with. The depression, I think, has been related hormonally. It surges and spikes and drops in hormones for me, so like through the cycle, through the month, or whatever. Also, the only time I really was severely depressed was during puberty growing up and that’s when you knew your hormones are raging.
Then, anxiety, I have not had anxiety after I stopped drinking. In my sober life, I do not have anxiety. I have worry, but I don’t have the crippling …
Russ Perry: What’s the difference between worry and anxiety?
Mika Perry: It’s physical.
Russ Perry: Really?
Mika Perry: It’s physical, you can’t sleep, your heart’s racing. I’ve had panic attacks and then just a constant feeling of doom, like impending doom is anxiety. Then, perfectionism, I wanted to be perfect in every way and so to avoid any mistakes or not being perfect, I would drink it away or procrastinate and not do it. It’s funny that, you know, I’m just a type A personality and so perfectionism’s something I’ve always struggled with. Being a past professional organizer and someone that still does, it’s like that in, you know, like everything’s perfectly placed and stuff. I learn how to be realistic about that and not let that be a trap for me, but something that just inspires me.
Next is seeking a higher power or have faith and a belief in something that is bigger than you. I know that I’ve never gone through the 12-steps, but I know it addresses like a “higher power.” For us, for me, being a believer in Christ and being a Christian, that’s my faith and really taking the whole issue at hand outside of you and believing in something more than you because I think addictions and habits and those can be very self-centered. You’re really when you’re in an addiction, you are really self-centered and I realize that about myself. I was being very, very one-minded about just me. I’m worried, I’m stressed, I’m … it’s me, me, me and I wasn’t thinking about you, I wasn’t thinking about my family, I wasn’t thinking about my faith, I wasn’t thinking about my impact in the world around me, so expanding that view and in your mind was really helpful for me.
Identify and not necessarily avoid, your triggers. My triggers for drinking, now as a sober person, has been going to steakhouses with a great wine list, flying first class where they have free champagne, vacations on the beach where I would previously have great drinks on the beach, and being home alone because when I was home alone I would drink to avoid those stresses of loneliness, depression, anxiety, anything, you know, racing thoughts. I say don’t necessarily avoid your triggers because the way that you grow in your sobriety’s facing those fears and those triggers and conquering them. Drinking is avoidance, so avoiding triggers is continuing that pattern of avoiding things that freak you out or put you back in a bad spot. We still go to steakhouses and vacations and fly first class and I am still home alone and I’m sober through all that now because I have these other great strategies and things I’ve put into my life to help me.
Another tip, remember how much things suck. I was thinking about this other day. I was like, I am so glad I am never going to have a hangover ever again in my entire life because those are terrible, so awful. Also, just the horrible feelings I had after drinking. It just … I never felt good, but I kept doing it because I was avoiding feeling worse or something. Remembering the bad. For you, being in jail. Don’t want that to happen again.
Another tip, find sober people to be friends with. One thing that you will find if you make a lifestyle change, like sobriety, is how many other people around you share that same lifestyle and choices. I’ve been really pleasantly and happily surprised with how many sober people are around me that don’t drink. I thought everyone else drinks and I’m going to be the only one that doesn’t. Nope. I’m finding out all the time. It’s not that you want to kind of go with the flow and be with other people, but just having that support is validating for you and really helps strengthen your sobriety.
Last tip is, go public and have accountability. This is something I’m currently in. I’m talking about it right now, I’ve talked about it before in a previous episode. By the time this airs, I will have put this on my blog post, but making it public is a new part of my journey in sobriety and strengthening that.
Russ Perry: Bravo. Love it. Out of your list, I thought that having a higher power and faith, that’s definitely part of a program that I’ve been a part of, Celebrate Recovery. You can’t do it alone. Whether you believe it is with God himself or an accountability partner, the journey of sobriety is only possible with someone or something else greater than yourself. That is probably the number one … I mean, I think of everything we’ve listed here today and if you’re listening to this and you want to take that journey, you’ve just got to reach out to somebody. It doesn’t have to be a professional therapist or recovery person, especially if your addiction isn’t necessarily related to drinking or alcohol. It could just be addicted to Snapchat filters or I don’t know, but just acknowledging that and reaching out and talking about it.
Getting out of that isolation. That’s where addictions want you to live because that’s where they’re profitable. The addictions whether they’re alcohol, drugs, social media, pornography, food, whatever it is, when you’re by yourself, that’s when you consume the most of it and you do it the most. Someone else is making money off of you. When you break free from that, you finally gain new perspective and it helps curb those patterns of consumption for whatever it might be. Alright, well that was awesome if I do say so myself.
Just a reminder, if you want to get this full list and also check out the stuff that we mentioned earlier in the episode, our favorites and things we love, definitely go to our website. Our new website, GoodToBeHomePodcast.com. We’ll have everything there, show notes, this episode will be GoodToBeHomePodcast.com/SoberTips that you can check it at. Then, as always, make sure you follow us on Instagram where we’re talking about this lifestyle of sobriety every day. Showing how we do it, what we do, the challenges, the ups, the downs, and everything else. Anything else, Mika, before we wrap up?
Mika Perry: That was fun. I hope if you are considering sobriety, these tips might be helpful for you.
Russ Perry: Okay, well until next time everyone, thanks for listening to Good To Be Home. Definitely give us a rating, a five-star rating on the iTunes or the other apps that you listen to podcasts, Stitcher and Google Play I think are the other ones, and we’ll talk to you next time.
Mika Perry: Bye.
Russ Perry: Thanks for listening to this episode of Good To Be Home.
Mika Perry: Don’t forget to subscribe on iTunes and give us a rating.
Russ Perry: See you next time.